August 14, 2008

Approved with Corrections and Comments to Paragraph 5 as follows:

On August 14, 2008, Marilyn provided the Board Members with the 2008 Proposed By Law Changes including the original wording, and proposed changes.  After careful review, the Board voted unanimously to not vote on them at the August 21, 2008 General Meeting until the Board can review them in depth at the next Board Meeting to be held September 9, 2008.  NOTE:  There has been quite a bit of confusion on the proposed By Law changes as they were presented differently in January and March.

SCARE CANYON RANCH ASSOCIATION

BOARD MEETING MINUTES

July 17, 2008

Roy City Senior Center

Meeting began at 6:00.m.

Ray Gibbons Conducted the Meeting.

Members Present:

Mike Dean                                Adam Stuart

Chris Roby                                Doug Stuart

Bob Wallis                                Joel Stewart

Blair Leird                                Mary Lou Heslop – Treasurer   

Marilyn Dean – Secretary

Members Excused:  Debbi Spilker

Old Business: 

Marilyn read the June 10, 2008 Board Meeting Minutes and they were approved as corrected.

New Business: 

1.  Hunting / Trespassing

Blair addressed hunting and will email information and map to Mike.  Hideout is improving their roads, trails, will fence off most prominent areas to 4-wheelers, and will post “No Trespassing” by the October Elk hunt.

Blair said he is not opposed to hunting by special permission, and by special needs (permits, moose, etc).  Their rifle hunt is full and hunting on their property will be shut down.  All will be fenced, gated at main gate, and clearly marked.  For other hunts they are trying to control access to their property on a limited basis.

2.  Cache County / Public Road Access

Blair is meeting with Cache County in about a week.  Bob asked if he has a good map.  Blair said he does, but doesn’t have it with him.  The map shows continuation of the road up Rocky Ridge.

Joel said Mr. Daines commented at the Cache County Meeting that the road doesn’t affect us, but it does.

Blair said it is easy to fence their property and post the boundaries with no trespassing, so the road doesn’t affect him as much as it does all of us.

Joel talked about the possibility of Cache County fencing private property, if we could get the support of Hideout it would strengthen our request to ask for fencing.  We should demand fence, and Ray added we should demand road maintenance also.

Joel is writing a letter to Cache County petitioning fencing private property and it should open Cache County’s eyes.  Blair asked if Cache County had agreed to fence Coldwater.  Ray said it is in the proposed settlement, but the settlement has not been signed yet.

Bob called the County Assessors and they weren’t available as they were all out surveying SCRA and Coldwater.

Blair is meeting with Cache County and he personally does not want the road open.  Bob said with the remoteness of the road/properties, it wouldn’t be good.  Blair said it will be expensive to fight Cache County.  Coldwater fought them and had a good outcome.  Blair also received a call from Mike Olsen on the possible sale of his/some property if the roads are opened.  He has 30,000 acres, and could sale the west 15,000.

Mike said he is at a loss as--what authority does Cache County have to take the roads.  At the meeting Ray asked what authority they had and Daines wouldn’t answer.

Blair agreed at the County Meeting, Cache County Council was quick to shut SCRA down.  Joel also agreed – how do you change private road to public access without condemnation and compensation, or to prove need.

Joel talked about RS 2477 and there are as many losses as wins.  There is a Utah family that won and the family is being compensated from taxes collected.

3.  Proposed “By-Law Changes 2008”

Ray addressed the April proposed “By-Law Changes 2008” #s 1-4 that were tabled due to lack of time.  Ray handed out copies for the Board to review, and wanted a vote to either accept them and take them forward to the August General Meeting to be voted on by the Association Membership, or to reject them. 

The Board reviewed and the majority voted to reject them all as a whole.  #s 1-4 were rejected.  Mike, Chris, Bob, Adam, Doug, and Ray voted to reject them.  Joel Stewart and Blair Leird did not vote. 

Bob made the motion to reject them, Adam seconded, and the majority were in favor of rejecting them.

4.  Hideout Discussion in Relationship to the Proposed By-Law Changes

Bob asked how Blair feels about being a member of SCRA.

Blair said he wished there could have been a formal presentation to the Association at a General Meeting for him to present his plans, and the future of Hideout.  Blair did initially post Hideout information on the SCRA Web Page and he said he wasn’t aware Hideout wasn’t part of the By Laws.  All were accepting of Hideout as an Association Member; Joel commented he loves their money and contributions they make.

Blair said Derek doesn’t present items/issues at the meetings very eloquently, doesn’t communicate well and didn’t convey the Hideout in a favorable light.

Blair said Hideout will be more restrictive with their “chunk of property” and manage it better within SCRA, would like to be a part of SCRA.

Ray said that is exactly what it is – Hideout is not an infringement to SCRA, but an asset.  Blair said it took several meetings with the Board to get to where they are.  Derek had misconceptions about the electronic gate and didn’t present it well.  Blair wanted to speak to the Association Membership, but Derek pushed forward and did it himself.

Ray asked if it were brought up again to the Association in a different light, would Blair be willing to address it.

Blair said he wouldn’t dare invest money in a new electronic gate system now, even though it has been tested and there were no problems.  The first person who disagreed would probably destroy the system.

Ray agreed, said we have had problems with even the padlocks in the past, and there will probably be problems with any system.

5.  Proposed By Law Changes 2008 Discussion

* See Note at Top of Minutes

Ray readdressed the proposed By Law Changes 2008 individually.  Chris Roby was the only one who had a copy of the By Laws, so discussion was limited.

Bob proposed #1 be an agenda item at the August General Meeting.  Ray said #1 will be added as an agenda item.  Blair asked about the contingency clause in the By Laws and couldn’t the Board make the change?  Ray said he doesn’t want to use the contingency clause and wants the Association to vote on any proposed changes to the By Laws.

Blair commented the Hideout has added $6,000 more operating dollars into the SCRA system.  Blair would like 15 minutes at the August General Meeting to present the Hideout and they want to be a good neighbor.  Ray, Bob, Joel all agreed they feel the same way and it would be beneficial to us all.

Bob made the motion that we add items 1 and 2 as agenda items at the August General Meeting.  Chris made the motion we add item #3.  Chris read the water section in the existing By Laws, and then read item 3 from the last meeting they were table at (February due to lack of time).

Bob made the motion in the paragraph strike “four” and change “must be” to are.  Ray said we must send the proposed changes to vote on at the August General Meeting to the Association in time to review them.

Bob makes the motion to add items 1, 2, 3 to the agenda at the August General Meeting, Mike seconded the motion.

The Board voted and the majority was in favor to add as an agenda item.  Joel Stewart and Blair Leird did not vote.

6.  Procedure for Hunting / Permits

Ray wanted to talk to Mike about hunting permits.  Must have the permits ready for the August 21st General Meeting, and available by request from paid members for the early archery hunt.

Also, must have statement on the back of the permit stating “This permit does not permit you to trespass, break any state/federal laws, and must have printed permission to hunt posted property.”  Mike will copy it from the back of the previous years’ permit.

Ray asked if the Board thought 400 permits would be enough, Mike would check on how many were ordered last year, and if we ran out could more be printed without a “set-up” fee.  Number of last year’s order for permits was based on 6 permits per paid member.  Blair and Mike discussed they would like to limit the hunt to 3 point or better, and will recommend to hunters.

Mike asked if the Board had a preference for what color of permit, they all agreed something that would show up against the hunter orange – Mike proposed fluorescent lime green.

Doug and Adam discussed lowering the number of permits to 4 permits per membership.  Adam said with the harsh winters and the deer herds aren’t growing; less permits might help the herd rebound.

Adam made the motion to lower the permits to 4 per paid membership, and special review by the board on multiple-owned, multiple dues paid properties (as in Bate/Critchlow, Little Paradise).  Mike seconded the motion.

The Board voted on lowering the hunting permits to 4, majority in favor.  Blair Leird and Joel Stewart did not vote.  Chris made the comment that he personally feels no change is needed at this time.

-     Spring Improvements

Ray said the next item is spring improvements.  He had a contractor up at SCRA to look at Indian Springs to bid re-doing the concrete tube that goes into the spring.

Joel explained the breakout of the bill:  $2,235.00.  One half of the charge is transport, 60 feet of line, manhole, will set the tank, but not supply it.  Tank is approximately $3,700, epoxy coated.  This would bring the total to $5,935, about the same as Lower Springs.

Bob asked where the access would be for Indian Springs-would it be on the proposed “public road” and we could have problems with it?  Ray said we could change the hydrant set up so it would be off the public right of way.  It would be beneficial to do Indian Springs now as it runs year round and Lower Springs in the spring.  Chris said Ron Hill told him Lower Springs stopped running, and can he check out what happened.

The Board addressed doing both springs this year while they had the manpower, equipment, etc up there.

Doug and Chris/Joel addressed if they had everything brought in to do both, it would double the load weight, but still could be done.  The pad would have to be ready to install.  Ray also would like to improve the spring and incorporate a 3 inch outlet on the bottom with a fitting that would qualify as a fire protection device connection.    Main Springs only has a 2 inch fitting and he would also like to see a 3 inch fitting for it so it could be hooked up by the fire department.

Ray discussed connections, pipes, etc could be used as credit toward fire monies.

Ray makes a motion to order tanks for both Indian Springs and Lower Springs (approximately $12,000 total) and discussed where to put tank on Lower Spring, Board agreed we should have a professional engineer evaluate/look at the area and tell us where it should be placed.  Blair said he will ask Gardener Engineering to look at our springs when they are at Hideout the next week.

Chris made the motion to have Gardiner Engineering look at it, Bob seconded the motion.  Majority was in favor, Blair Leird and Joel Stewart did not vote.

Chris said it would be prudent if we could make one or more of the springs potable some day.  Doug said James Calvert at Mountain View Excavating could bid putting in the lines.  Ray made the motion to hold having Mountain View bid until the engineers look at the system.  Bob seconded.  The Board voted and the majority were in favor.  Blair Leird and Joel Stewart did not vote.

-     Discussion on Public Road / Ombudsman

Ray said he got the address of the “Ombudsman for Property Rights” and if all agreed, we could contact him on behalf of the Association on the public road access.  Chris advised against it at Ombudsmen specialize in mediation and arbitration and you lose your right to appeal if it goes to court.  Ray said he will call and discuss other services available to the Association instead of the Ombudsman.

Ray called Lynn Lemon’s office and the secretary said Lemon will only meet with an attorney present.  Ray is meeting Monday to present SCRA background and will ask for Cache County’s documentation.

Bob said he would like to meet with Cobabe and video tape his technical background and knowledge in relationship to the roads before it is lost.

Joel discussed if a deed “conveys” something (as in the roads), that means it “gives” to, so how can Cache County think they have rights to it.

Ray addressed the meeting at Randy and Kathy Rochell’s home and the proposal they would like to make to Cache County instead of making a new public access road behind their property/Coldwater’s property boundary.  They want to propose Cache County use the existing road through our gate into SCRA and make a trade off – for example, fencing, gate, maintenance, etc.  The meeting was for only property owners below the second gate, the Rochells invited Ray for his technical background only.  Rochells also invited Derek and he was in attendance and commented from the By Laws regarding rights of way across private property.

Bob asked if the majority were in favor of this trade off, and Joel asked why they were willing to lay down so early?

Mike said he was at the meeting (as his property is between the first and second gates) and he said he commented at the meeting this isn’t the time to make concessions, and highly stressed we should still fight the road issue.

Doug asked if the Johnsons were there as they have 80 acres and the Rochells have 5 ½ - they would have a big impact if the public road were changed to the SCRA road.

Blair said he has a good land attorney and could do a lot of things to put this off, delay discussions.

Ray also spoke to Questar Gas and told them if the road goes as planned, there would be heavy equipment, trucks passing directly on top of the existing pipe line.  Where the pipe line has road crossing over it, it was buried deeper, and reinforced.  The area the road would be crossing the pipe line wasn’t reinforced.

Questar didn’t have knowledge that Cache County was planning this road to cross the pipe line and will contact them as soon as possible.

Doug asked if Ray had an update on the Ruby Pipeline at this time, and would it access the same right of way as Questar.  Ray  has not been able to meet with them, doesn’t have an update.

Doug asked about Dust Guard on the roads this year – Ray said with all up in the air over the public roads we won’t put it down.

Chris asked to be excused at 8:30, and Ray agreed he could leave at that time as we would be close to finishing.

-     Keys / Locks

Doug addressed keys and the patent paper that needs to be signed by the Board President, and Board Member.  Doug also asked if there is a tax exempt form.

Adam asked about the transition period of keys/locks.  Doug said the gate would be “double-locked” for 30 days so either key/lock system could be used depending on which key you had, and no one would be locked out.

Bob asked if someone could talk to Derek about his harassment of Marilyn over the board minutes that have not been read/approved and not posted.  Mike also said Derek has been harassing Marilyn over quite a few things, and Marilyn said Derek told her after he resigned that “he would make it as hard and miserable on the board and association as possible”.  Ray said he will talk to him.

Marilyn asked if they wanted this entered into the minutes, and all said yes – it needs to be addressed

Bob make the motion to adjourn, Mike seconded, all in favor.

Meeting adjourned at 8:45 p.m.

Marilyn C. Dean

SCRA Secretary