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Approved as Read 14 May 2008 with Amendment:
Grader able to make 1 pass on full 16 miles of road,
but not 2-3 times a year.
SCARE CANYON RANCH ASSOCIATION
GENERAL MEETING MINUTES
March 20, 2008
Harrisville Senior Citizen Cabin
Meeting began at 7:00 p.m.
1. Derek Hunwick welcomed everyone to the first general meeting of the year.
2. Marilyn Dean read the November 15, 2007 General Meeting minutes and they were approved as read.
OLD BUSINESS
- Derek discussed the Ruby Pipeline. As of the latest update it will come southwest out of Wyoming to Oregon, his notes were superseded as of Tuesday Meeting in Logan.
- Derek turned discussion over to Ray Gibbons who attended the meeting.
- General pipeline currently has 2 route options
- Southern Utah to Nevada it would not pass through SCAR.
- Idaho through Utah to Oregon, it would pass through SCAR near the first gate
Nothing can be determined until snows melt, survey is accomplished, layout on map – across Ant Flat, away from old pipeline easement
- Have requested a topographical map
- Questions may be addressed to Ray Gibbons
- Jim Spencer commented each property owner will be contacted individually if pipeline crosses property
- Randy Rochell asked if they will grade the road like when they ran the last pipeline
- Ray stated it will be 2010 before they start, 2nd/3rd quarter of 2010 before finished – must return roads to original condition
- Derek commented with the snows it will be June before they can get in, will update everyone with the Picnic information
- Ron Hill made the comment of environmental impact, rights, if use old line, make sure they don’t take advantage of property owners by not paying
- Darrell Hargis – can you keep us updated on the website
NEW BUSINESS
ANNUAL CLEAN UP DAY / PICNIC IS SATURDAY, 28 JUNE 2008
Derek announced 28 June is clean-up day, picnic – all need to participate, just not the board members and a few property owners who do odds and ends by their property; need to get out and help pick up litter. Any time you’re out, if you see litter, pick it up!
Let board know about dyers woad – need to stay on top of it
Front gate – per rendering provided, moving into gate/electronic lock in place – will address electronic gate later in the meeting.
FIRE CREW
Fire Crew is slated to come up early this year, couldn’t make it last year before the hunt, didn’t want to disrupt the hunt. Will invite Fire Crew to April Board Meeting, report back to you when they’ll come up to SCAR
DUES / DECALS
Decals – ensure you pay your dues, ensure you get enough decals for all vehicles, ATVs, etc. Decals prove/provide sponsorship – subject to trespassing without proof.
Electronic gate is one way to control who is in and using our roads – Derek will address further
ROADS / GRADER MAINTENANCE
Derek said lot of work done last year. Spent $12,000 on roads maintenance – half came from Hideout – they are paying more than their fair share. Grader manifold first project, $1,400 to $1,500.
Dale Lee’s rocky area was washed out, filled in bottom hole of Cottonwood where it was low, swampy – fill with river rock, build up.
Culvert is good; but the water runs down and builds up.
Monte dust guarded – asked owners if it was worth it? Unanimous – Yes! Will try dust guard on a test area and will continue.
Lucy Morelli – road/ruts need to be taken care of at her property - road not plowed/graded, if you haul heavy water it would be hard on your trucks
Monte grades once a year, typically by June – there are 16 miles of roads, grader can make this once, but not 2-3 times. If an area is washed out, will try to get to it.
Derek commented the Hideout should be asked to do some of the heavy work with their equipment.
Jim Skeen – asked status of court decision on use of “public” roads. Derek said the court meets in June on public roads – dates keep changing. Derek will keep us updated.
WATER
4 designated springs – SCAR has 4, we can use/anticipate Hideout will use.
We may all share springs – Hideout takes their water from upper spring
Tom’s Tree – Hideout deeded to them, will share
Blair Leird - Hideout doesn’t intend to use SCAR water/develop spring at Tom’s Tree – they are not picking and choosing what is better for the Hideout vs. SCRA
Riley Skeen – dates in question, not voted on in general meeting
Tony Fox – By Laws state waters controlled and owned by SCRA- aren’t all 8 used by hideout as an association member? Hideout will have to follow all criteria. If Hideout takes more than we can use, who controls the water use.
Derek states we control use; Board considers all requests and discusses and Hideout will have to file for water use like everyone else.
Kerry Dykster – it is deeded water – if a single member buys, do we have to vote on them buying in, what is the difference if Hideout buys in.
Darrell Stuart – By Laws states our water istheir water.
Tom Whitaker – Colbabe only deeded so may springs – Derek and Tom meeting with Cache County, guidelines state Hideout must do own paperwork – use is based on 9M gallons.
Cal Pack – when and how water read, no specific date of completion – extended until report is complete. Cal Pack makes a motion that board must identify to Cache County, general membership per paper given to Board (paper given to secretary for minutes). Derek explained timeline of why to extend and not completing requirements of Cache and State.
Ron Hill – document of water is legal document from attorney to put meter at source of water – Ray Gibbons states engineer said so
Derek – please mail copy of court order so it can be presented to cache country
Ron Hill – said we must be in compliance – Derek said we are in compliance, submitting extension, 100% correct with what Cache County dictates
Cal Pack – why not at source – do you have discussion
Ray addressed where meter is and we’re in compliance
Ron Hill discusses source/run off
Randy Rochell – why not put meter at head of spring – Ray said it is engineered and approved by the county as is
Ray said the water use is 1 June – 1 November – water good/on usage
Tom Whitaker – goes into overflow, being metered
Kent Whiteman – said we discussed water in February 2008 Board Minutes what did we mean “scrap and start over”
Derek – said it was the best solution in starting over at the lower/upper springs
Kent Whiteman – did members downstream have problems getting water?
Derek – water went down early due to dry year
Board members discussed water issues at February board meeting and one solution was to disconnect “over the hill” line, cut off farm faucet at twin springs and re-direct water
Ellen Taylor – line has been there forever, why cut it off now?
Derek – no, complaints on water issues, one recommendation was to put a tank at Twin Ponds and fill from there. Cannot resolve problems
At this point Monte called for the meeting to come to order
Jim Spencer – water problems need to be handled privately between offending members
David Billings said the motion on water cannot be tabled, vote must be taken.
Derek conducted vote – majority approved, one opposed for water issues to be handled privately.
ELECTRONIC GATE SYSTEM
Derek addressed electronic gate. Board, previous Board Members have been working this for some time. Issues are complaints on ATVs, trespassing, speeding on roads--not safe. Keys are not returned when property sold.
Were looking at issues with key control, privileges prior to Hideout coming forward to foot bill on electronic gate, software can be programmed to turn keys off at will. Board has done research on best system and if it will work. Board issues keys to membership, keeps control of keys. Reliability of system, lithium battery good for 200 thousand “activations – change at 100 thousand before it wears out.
3 issues: Electronic key system gives more beef to By Laws for misbehaving, not following By Laws; immediate key control; and keys ensure extra maintenance money for roads.
Currently 40+ keys are out and unaccounted for
Keycards must be programmed correctly; clicker being checked out; Medico rep Dave Vaudry, to attend a Board Meeting and Derek will update you.
Blair Leird addressed keys, accountability, reliability, computer chip/not strip - plan is to trial new system before you are turned loose with keys, software proven reliable. Will handle and address issues with hard keys – Hideout website has information, can access it
Jim Spencer – one question – if system fails and you are inside, how can you get out
Derek – we will have a crash gate for an emergency
Tony Fox – electronic cards used every day, they fail. Need keyless entry like with cars
Blair – chips can be in anything, fobs, card, etc.
Randy Rochell asked cost – Blair stated $6K for medico, $6K for Salto System
Jack Amundson – currently uses two systems – CAC and keyless entry. Both fail in a power outage. With a crash bar door, you can get out, but cannot enter – lock is read only, programming of keys with software, no different than key
Blaine Campbell – addressed issues with keyless
Mark Ross – Addressed re-keying of software
Jerry Everett – 44 years ago his dad bought property, we cannot land lock him, deny him access. Twice he has got through gates when someone left, second gate with deputy. Property owner cannot be locked out
Monte addressed dues in relationship to keys, road maintenance
Randy Rochell – asked Jerry Everett - why do you not join association
Jerry Everett – his dad bought the property for fun – “Note - I could not hear rest of response”
Derek addressed that Board met with lawyers, and by law, you must sell a key. It is $80.00 for the key, members pay an additional $45 for membership.
Mayva Kaufman – asked key cost
Derek - $80.00 road maintenance, turn in old key, get on new electronic gate key. Additional keys at cost of key (approximately $15.00 per key)
Jim Spencer – comment to Jerry Everett – roads in 1978 were not maintained, cost increase to property values by association maintaining roads
Derek addressed Coldwater going to court in June regarding use of SCAR roads as “public roads”
Stacy Shelton – regarding exchange of keys - why turn in old key, how doe it work when you don’t live in Ogden area, not convenient
Derek – Turn in old key, proof of keys bought, if e-card goes belly up, reissue old keys. Once key is not good, must go to e-card
Stacy Shelton – why not mail her key card – Derek – still working on logistics details i.e. – how to exchange, central locations
Jim Trujillo – could you overlap systems
Blair – possibility of emergency entry gate during change until keys collected.
Derek – provide product reliability
Jack Melbern – has 3 keys, why can’t he trade 3 for 3
Derek – no, road maintenance provides 1 key, you can purchase up to 5 more
Tony Fox – 2 sets of key locks, money put in while on board to replace keys lost - $50.00 kitty
Derek – no has not put money in each year for kitty to replace keys
Blair – Hideout is paying $6,000
Randy Rochell – By Lws state half price of key to replace
Derek – money used for road maintenance must pay” cost for cost” on replacement keys
Bob Wallace – addressed medico keys are $6-$9, 2 locks at $60, changing out medico system cheap to change, control – system fallible for catching someone, current system almost foolproof, again, how do you get out – Bob Wallace emailed his paper, requested time on agenda
Derek interrupted – Bob asked to finish
Bob said Medico does not recommend using electronic system due to remote location
Derek addressed electronic key system covered all of Bob’s concerns/complaints he submitted via email. It is economic, can reset if zapped/malfunctions. The Board contacted Medico, and A-1 Key, Bolos did not bid as they felt it would be too expensive
Jack Amundson – fascination of shutting off key – who determines who’s key is shut off – is there going to be a key court.
Derek – party violating often not caught and continues to use their key to get in. With new system, can use key shut off as leverage if not following bylaws, guidelines, can turn key off
Jim Trujillo – will there be due process to plead case, ability to know you will be turned off
Tom Whitaker – not random, will be discussed, reviewed
Marilyn Hargis – will the new system document who comes and go from gate
Blair – yes
Everett – good point, you’d better have access to cell towers, cell phone, Nextel for an emergency
Doug Stuart addressed there are 70 keys left, and 700 are out. When keys are turned in, make sure you turn the keys in that were assigned to you – they are numbered
Lucy Morelli – electronic key system, key system goes down, could there be a key pad to get in/out
Riley Skeen Jr. - key code pad is not secure – too easy to give code out, lose control
Kevin Karras – locks used indoors are in a controlled condition, outdoors there are extreme conditions, moisture
Blair – do not need to worry about extreme condition as we can’t open the gate in winter due to depth of snow
MEETING BUSINESS PROCEDURES / BY-LAWS
Riley Skeen – may be opening Pandora’s Box – was there any consultation with other than the Board with regards to members input, pros and cons discussed, there should be an MOU between Hideout relative to water, gate, everything.
Derek said there is a letter of understanding, Board agreed with it. There are areas still to be worked out. They are in monthly discussions with Blair from Hideout. Blair sits on Board as part of SCRA, but as a non-voting member.
Jim Spencer – not concerned about water, possible problem with Hideout as part of SCAR – how does Hideout affect our non-profit organization status.
Blair Leird – not legally incorporated as part of SCAR, needs MOU, issues, agenda clarified.
Kevin Karras –section 2c of by laws does not apply.
Blair Leird – no, 2c does not apply.
Cal Pack – Hideout shows incorporating in minutes.
Derek used wrong word – part of association, not incorporating
Cal Pack – legally part of SCRA – Cache County does not recognize SCRA as an association
Blair – non-profit organization, Cache County does not recognize SCRA – SCRA owns, maintains roads.
Derek will table.
Hugh Guthrie – can we hunt Hideout property?
Derek – if it is posted no trespassing, then no, but if they post, they can’t hunt ours either may limit hunting in future.
Jack Amundson – we need an MOA, we are screwed w/o an MOA – if Hideout belongs to Association and they hunt on our propperty – need an MOA to clarify
Derek – Board is timely on nitty-gritty things – Listen to members!
Monte – Hideout is new, but they are here to stay, work in progress as a member must abide by rules/by laws - 40 acre lots like us. They are private property owners like us and have elected to join the association like us.
Jim Spencer makes a motion – can meeting be conducted as stated in By Laws, move that we as members allow Board of Directors to iron out problems at their monthly Board Meetings and report back to members
Alice Gibbons seconded.
Derek – we don’t operate according to Roberts Rules of Business, members voted in, we spend about 4 hours at monthly Board Meetings discussing issues.
Blaine Campbell – contacted and spoken to Hideout—good neighbors, developing more springs won’t hurt, hunter(s) hunting, wont hurt either.
Raise of hands – how many contacted by Board about Hideout issue – a few
Derek – Jim Spencer still has his motion out, cannot withdraw it, must be voted on/seconded…Marilyn asked Jim to restate it: “To allow Board of Directors and officers to discuss with Hideout issues pertaining to membership of SCAR, trust in Board to report back to members on decisions being made, or allowed to discuss.”
Blaine – we must follow Robert Rules of Business as a non-profit organization.
Derek said there are about 7 rules/ways to operate – must identify one.
Derek Moulton – appreciative of presidency/Board, but By Laws changed without votes, frustrated by no vote, no say.
Derek – March 2007 General Meeting voted and approved By Laws can be changed by the Board if it considers it in the best interest of the association.
Derek Moulton addressed gate – Derek tabled it
Stacy Shelton – hears the frustration of the members with the Board going forward without vote of the members.
Derek has tried to pass out information, voted on last March. How can we get info out – when the next meeting not until August. Also, the By Law contingency good for 1 year.
Kent Whiteman – didn’t want to decrease discussion/vote on motion to let Board elected by general membership to discuss and make decision and report at next meeting.
Dave Casperson – he made a motion in March 2007 General Meeting and asked for his motion to be voted on to have Board discuss, report back – also, should members have a vote on dues.
Derek – no
Someone called out a vote must be made on Jim’s motion – secretary reread the motion “To allow Board of Directors and officers to discuss with Hideout issues pertaining to membership of SCAR, trust in Board to report back to members on decisions being made, or allowed to discuss.”
Jerry Everett – not a member – Derek, you must ask for a vote or move on!
Vote – 22 approved, 27 opposed to Jim Spencer’s motion.
Recommend membership vote on decision of the Board – not exclusively the Board deciding.
Lucy Morelli – makes a motion in order for the Board of Directors to make a decision, report to members for a vote via email, US mail, members must respond back by a certain date or lose their vote.
Bill Shurtleff seconded, but does not have email – request US Post Office mailings
Jack Amundson – wants to be informed of decisions
Monte – Board trusted to do job with common sense – if we have to vote on every thing, where does it stop.
Derek asks if Janae Matue – could post on the web page - more issues here than before – why don’t’ you show opening statement …
Mayva Kauffman – said the electronic gate is issue
Derek – no, heartburn issue is about the Hideout
Tony Fox – proposed electronic gate be discussed to negate issues
Lucy Morelli requested vote on her motion: “In order for the Board of Directors to make a decision, report to members for a vote via email, US mail, members must respond back by a certain date or lose their vote.”
Blaine Campbell – third the motion – email, or US mail controls who is voting by paid up members only instead of a raise of hands.
Derek tries to count hands – took note of majority in favor, 8 opposed
Dave Billings – motion to conduct meetings in a proper way, need to add agenda items 1 week in advance, send out notice, send items to board, run meeting like a corporation
Monte – made motion meeting is interesting, but long – there were 3 handouts and Bob Wallace was the only one to email to board for discussion, only one with name on handouts
Monte made a motion no more stuff to be handed out at meetings, only via email to board prior to board meetings and if given to board, can give to members
Cal Pack – asked is this an open public meeting, - - Board/Derek - no it is a landowners meeting
Stacy Shelton – amended motion – if board is provided information ahead of time, it can be brought and distributed and discussed, acted upon at general meeting
Derek asked secretary to buy a hammer and timer
Derek wants to give opportunity to Joel Stuart – when you have the floor, is that the proper time to hand out papers?
Keni Craven – we do not know who the handouts came from – were they from the board? Handouts should state who, where, subject
3. Monte Matue made a motion to adjourn. Seconded by Tom Whitaker. The meeting was adjourned at 10:10 p.m.
Marilyn Dean
SCRA Secretary
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